Protests erupted across Male’ over the weekend that saw the burning of Israeli flags and calls to “ban all Israeli medical teams” from practicing in the Maldives, alongside a “silent-sit together” against so-called “religious extremism”.
Protesters burned several Israeli flags in Republican Square and demanded the deportation of seven visiting Israeli eye surgeons, who are holding free eye camps in Male’ and the island hospitals.
Protesters gathered near the tsunami monument on International Human Rights Day, claiming that “Jews would not provide any form of assistance, unless there is a hidden agenda”, according to the website of the Islamic Foundation of the Maldives.
The religious NGO has previously called on the government to “shun all medical aid from the Zionist regime”, alleging the Israeli surgeons “have become notorious for illegally harvesting organs from non-Jews around the world.”
Religious NGO Jamiyyathusalaf has also called on the government to provide citizens with military training “before Jews take over the country”.
President Mohamed Nasheed today met with the doctors the Israeli ‘Eye from Zion’ NGO and said “a vast majority of Maldivians” appreciated the humanitarian work of the doctors.
The doctors “expressed their appreciation for the warm hospitality they received in the Maldives”, according to a statement from the President’s Office, and “also noted that there was a great demand for their services in the Maldives.”
Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Mohamed Didi, said there had been “no discussions” in the Ministry regarding the anti-Israel protests.
“We are not saying anything for or against the protest action taken this week,” he said.
Didi added that the Foreign Ministry was “more involved in state humanitarian projects and inter-faith charity work than the Islamic Ministry.”
“The major roles of the ministry are to raise Islamic awareness and bring scholars from different countries to visit,” he said.
Coinciding with protests opposing the visit of Israeli doctors, the Islamic Foundation published allegations on its website that only two of the seven visiting surgeons from Eye from Zion had at the time been granted licenses by the Maldives Medical Council (MMC).
An MMC spokesperson was reported as claiming that certificates produced by the seven-member Eye from Zion medical staff were not carrying official stamps. However, the spokesperson added that all the surgeons would be able to receive licenses to operate upon clarification of their legitimacy by the Israeli government.
Meanwhile, a group of 30 Maldivians gathered near the artificial beach on Friday, up the road from the anti-Israel protest occurring at the tsunami monument, holding what they called a “silent sit-together” on International Human Rights Day.
Members at the gathering said they were attempting to oppose wider concerns over growing “religious extremism” in the country.
“Displaying a stark contrast to the loud truck and motorcycle cavalcade of religious conservatives who were protesting against Israeli doctors around the same time by announcing anti-Semitic messages through loud speakers, the youth that participated in the sit-down took a decidedly fresh approach towards protest,” a press release from the sit-together’s members claimed.
“The silent sit-together, conspicuous by the absence of any banners, megaphones, or sloganeering, aimed to send the message that youth are against religious extremism and supported Human Rights, Tolerance and Dignity for all humans.”
People participating in the protest said they were trying to start a “grassroots” movement against religious extremism, but did not wish to give their identities.
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@ Z-nut
"Despite all your points being clarified again & again, U dont seem to understand or dont want to understand."
You, and the bunch answered the wrong paper!
Today we had Trigonometry. Who asked you to answer the Calculus paper?
You will not get any marks for that.
Result: Fail
Advice: Read instructions first!
Some unanswered questions by Z-nut and company.
If you say there is nothing in Quran about making women cover from head to toe, then what is your answer to the fact that there is nothing in the Quran on how to conduct your daily prayers??
In other words how did you learn how to pray, if you expect to find every thing in the Quran?
By the way Quran does not elaborate on our prayers,ie. when to perform the adoration and prostration and so on.
Next question:
If anti-semitism is the definition for hatred of Jews, THEN, what name should be given for anti-arab preaching??
@Musician - I'll try to give an answer but there is a lot to cover in your statement.
"So you are basically saying the route cause of all evil things is religion". No, I did not say that at all. In fact I said the opposite of that, that evil people will always do evil regardless of religion.
It is our actions as human beings that are "evil" or "good", religion is simply a filter through which all the worst aspects of humanity are encouraged and excused. I think that is easily demonstrable in the way I have already stated; why else would a person commit an act of unspeakable evil such as burning "witches", suicide bombing, 9/11, etc, etc, if it were not for having the mind warped by some greater purpose that makes it all forgivable. Man, unlike other animals, has the capacity for evil - we don't need religion to be evil but it does make good men do wicked things.
The rest of the world have a perception that religion calls for respect of others and peace? Really? How many scriptures have been written on this very board inciting hatred and murder towards Jews and others? Religion has been the cause of many conflicts and deaths throughout history and the world.
Your point about ancient times is invalid because man has created 1,000s of Gods since the dawn of our civilisation. Remember that at one time we thought that the Sun and Moon were Gods too.
"How could you believe him and who told you right and wrong". It's not about belief, it's about my observations concurring with his. No-one has to tell me anything - I can think for myself.
"I have no problem if you believe in our God or not its up to you". And I have no problem in you believing whatever you want to. The difficulty is that religious people cannot keep their beliefs to themselves - they are only happy when everyone else believes it too. Remember how it is illegal not to be a Muslim in the Maldives? That is because Islam is not true and the authorities do not want you asking questions about it - outlawing free thought is the simplest way to prevent a discussion or education on a subject.
"For me I believe in God and thats what keeps me from crime and inhumane acts". Well I am obviously a far more moral person than you are because I do not need any such belief - I simply don't commit crime or inhuman acts because it runs contrary to my heart. And if any God instructed me to hurt another person I would refuse.
"If there are people like you (unbeliever) than this world would be in turmoil like the way it was in ancient times when there are very few people believe in GOD". People have always believed in a God ever since we became aware of our own mortality (see above). There has never been a truly secular state run on the principles of Thomas Paine, Spinoza, Einstein, etc - until then we will never know what an atheist society would look like. My theory is that people will still hurt each other, because that's what people do - but we'd be a lot better off in many ways. Oh and by the way, there was turmoil in ancient times due to lack of food, medicine, hygiene, technology and any understanding of the world. Thankfully science has made improvements in all these areas – so far religion has contributed nothing.
"I guess you dont believe in prophets when history shows they live in this world to show us the right path". Well I believe that Jesus and Mohammed were real people in history but they weren't prophets. And how do you know of them? Through books that were written long after they died. Do you know that Jesus's life is a rip off of Krishna's? Do you know that the only reason that Christmas is in December and Easter in Spring is because that's when Pagans celebrated the Summer and Winter solstices and it was easier to convert them to Christianity by using these times? Do you know who wrote the gospels and why they contradict each other so much? Do you know how the Quran was written and how much of it is a plagiarism of the Bible and Torah? Would you like to know these things or are you happy in darkness?
"You believe in theory of evolution which was totally not proven scientifically". Evolution is not a theory, it is indisputable, undeniable scientific fact. To say otherwise simply means that you have not read the evidence. Do you realise that Evolution can be seen every day in a laboratory with bacteria? We can see it in the way species on this planet have changed over relatively short periods of time – dog breeding is an example of evolution. If you want to know the truth then read Richard Dawkins’s book The Greatest Show on Earth and he will explain the science to you.
"How come you became so ignorant when God have given you wisdom and knowledge." He didn't - he doesn't exist.
"Please think about the way you were born. You are not an accident you are more than that." What about all the other animals, are they accidents or not? Where's their God?
Look, I don't say I have the answers to every question in the universe, but that's the point. Some things we just don't know yet. But making up stories and forcing other people to believe them is no solution. The truth is that no act of kindness, decency or morality done by a religious person could not be done just as easily by a non-believer.
The difference between you and I is that if God landed in my garden tonight and talked to me, I would accept that he is real – why wouldn’t I? But there is nothing, no evidence at all, that would make you change your view - because you have already made up your mind, no matter what the evidence is.
Sorry for the long response but I feel you have a right to a response on all of your points (and at least I used paragraphs). 🙂
Guys let's relax n take note how stupid we are getting by fighting.
This will not have an impact on anyone's way of looking at things from outside their own box. Infact this only polarizes us more and tend to push us inside our own shells further.
I tend to agree with SJF and the others on his line, to some extent. There were some plausible arguments against too.
But I won't go as far not to believe in a supreme being, because of the simple reason How do you know? There are a lot of things to see scientifically too, where we don't have answers. So I do believe in God, even though I don't accept lunatic behaviours and just any Tom, Dick oh Happy's theories.
I think Citizen had a good point as well.
Heck, you need to calm down as well.
A couple of answers you are looking for: Praying is a thing from heart. We can do whatever physical deeds whichever different ways different people preach us. But if our "hithu niyaiy" is not there in a sensible way, it is useless.
Anti Arab preaching could be anti arroganist. Have been to a few Arab countries. They come 1st, white skinned next and if you are Maldivian, you fall into Indian category where you'll be treated as cattle, not a shepard.
Please let's not forget another the vital bit Rasoollulah (SAW) practised, be nice to your fellows. Because our fellow humans are definitely here, to deal with every day. Our other beliefs are a much more important thing too, but we all know it cannot be shown black and white and we have so many differences among the multitude of Islamic sects and each of claiming to be the right one.
So we can't just go on fighting each other, and lose sight of what's happening around us.
A question for MN and those who write. Do you always wait till next day to find out if ur comment is published? Isn't it a bit long!
is another name for moderation, our infamous old censor board?
3 its of moderation? It must be a real Madu gini:-)
@ SJF - S(haitaanee) J(amaa'athuge) F(aaraveriyaa)
"we don’t need religion to be evil but it does make good men do wicked things."
Sound's like you have copy pasted the outspoken Atheist Christopher Hitchens!
And did you say "No-one has to tell me anything – I can think for myself."
Yeah? You really can think for yourself?
Well! Well! Well! Look at the braggadocio !
Trying to fool everyone and make them unbelievers, are you?
Here is a question without any copy pasting.
First of all, without God's inspiration and religion how did people come to know what is GOOD or EVIL?
@SJF: "religion is simply a filter through which all the worst aspects of humanity are encouraged and excused" where it was written it encourages all the worst things. As far as what I believe it encourages all the good things. Do you really believe it can be both ways. It can't be. it be either good or bad. If my religion encourages bad things I would be the first one to be an unbeliever like you. As a matter of fact I think you have read the wrong books. 9/11 bla bla do you really think we are proud of that. Then you are mistaken. I strongly recommend you to read quran once. You would know all those questions answer by yourself and you would know they are not muslims.
"we don’t need religion to be evil but it does make good men do wicked things." huh you mean to say desperate people will do desperate things. They may caz they are mentally sick. Its not about religion. People do evil things in the name of religion but its their desperation but its not allowed in religion. No matter how much we try to blame that for religion its our own choice and we have to be responsible for it. not religion. If you are responsible for others action then you can blame those extremists action for religion. Sure!!!:P
"And if any God instructed me to hurt another person I would refuse". How do you come up with this??? please hve a look on the following line from prophet Muhammad. "What actions are most excellent? To gladden the heart of human beings, to feed the hungry, to help the afflicted, to lighten the sorrow of the sorrowful, and to remove the sufferings of the injured." (Bukhari). This is what God has instructed us to do. What I do and what others do is their own choice, we cant blame God for our actions.
"Thankfully science has made improvements in all these areas – so far religion has contributed nothing." Do you believe people evolve as scientists or they were born as scientists. You definitely haven't read Quran-which has contributed enormously to the scientific community.Do you know who invented algebra and so many inventions when muslims rule this world. Back then they were normads, Today that you are seeing all these scientific advancements is bcaz of islam, please read history and you will know everything by yourself. Do you know the secret of the great pharaoh's body, how it prevented from decaying. It was written in the Quran 1400 yrs ago. Please read it
"Well I believe that Jesus and Mohammad were real people in history but they weren’t prophets. And how do you know of them? Through books that were written long after they died". Dont you believe things that were there when you were not born? Thats really strange. Do you know the word "History" Learn it you'll get your answers.
"Do you know how the Quran was written and how much of it is a plagiarism of the Bible and Torah? Would you like to know these things or are you happy in darkness?". I know everything. You cant find contradicting Quran in any part of the world. But you can find bible bcaz its been changed through out the time.
"Richard Dawkins’s book The Greatest Show on Earth and he will explain the science to you". I recommend you to read Haru Rasheed's book he will explain the evolution theory and also religion.
"What about all the other animals, are they accidents or not? Where’s their God?" Please read the following statement: "If you put your whole trust in Allah, as you ought, He most certainly will satisfy your needs, as He satisfies those of the birds. They come out hungry in the morning, but return full to their nests." (Tirmidhi)
"But making up stories and forcing other people to believe them is no solution". Who is forcing whom? Its up to you to believe it or not. You have choice,and the choice that you made is what you believe right?.
"because you have already made up your mind, no matter what the evidence is". Cant I say same thing to you? Can you prove to me that there is no God and all these creatures us everything is just a mere accident. and the whole universe everything is just made itself. If so why this universe allowed human being to prosper in this world..--to destroy it?
"(and at least I used paragraphs". Thats how problem created. If you are honest and good person that you are claiming, you wouldn't say that. Thats a sarcastic statement and how can I believe what you stand for and what you have said in those lengthy comments.
Heck, I think you are a little out of control to be honest.
“we don’t need religion to be evil but it does make good men do wicked things.”
No, I was paraphrasing Wienberg, as I already stated. I'm not sure why you would think that quoting people is a bad thing or an act of bragging - you've spent most of your time here quoting scriptures.
"Trying to fool everyone and make them unbelievers, are you?"
Nope. Trying to convince others is what the religious do. It's called Proselytizing. I believe that everyone has the right to believe what they want. What I object to is people being forced to say they believe something. If you notice, I am not angry, I am not arguing with anyone here, I am not insulting or threatening anyone. I am simply stating what I believe, based on the evidence at hand.
"First of all, without God’s inspiration and religion how did people come to know what is GOOD or EVIL?" I notice you didn't answer my question from earlier but ok; my honest view is that morality and therefore good and evil are subjective terms and therefore only exist in the form which we decide.
Now you will probably say I am therefore immoral. But, as I have already shown, the most immoral thing you can do is to act in a certain way just because you think someone will reward you for it, or punish you if you don't.
For example, one society may thing that adultery is utterly immoral, another may not. One society may think that homosexuality is immoral, another may not. One society may think that stoning to death is immoral, another may not.
Each of these societies will have their Gods and laws and traditions and each thinks that their way is the only way. So, who is right? Answer: no-one.
In ancient Greece and feudal Japan, it was often the case that love expressed physically between two men was seen as the most pure and "moral" love. Saudi Arabia and Maldives would disagree I think. Again, no-one is right on this.
We are animals that depend on society to survive - like lions or monkeys or dogs. We have evolved so that our brains are bigger than theirs, we have consciousness and we can think and communicate in ways far beyond other animals. It is up to us to decide what is right and wrong.
Personally, my morality is that anyone should be allowed to act as they like, as long as they are not hurting another person. It's a simple creed but one which we humans simply cannot abide by.
What nonsense - SJF !
Guys! Don't be fooled by his copy pasting other atheists.
Quran does not deny science! Science is a 'reason' that Allah created and man's perception and understanding of it keeps changing in time.
Just because man's knowledge of science keeps increasing - he can't arrogantly demand to see the Creator of that reason called science.
Even though the sighting of the Creator by His righteous subjects is reserved for an appointed time - Allah asks us to look at the greater wonders of His creation around us and understand God's greatness and power.
“And those who are devoid of knowledge say: ‘Why does not God speak unto us or why is not a [miraculous] sign shown to us?’ So said the people before them words of similar import. Their hearts are all alike...” (Quran 2:118)
@ heck
Since you claim to be a "fan" of the Prophet and to be a true "follower" you say you have to copy everything the Prophet did in his life "literally" you should start of with the following (just to begin with!)
Never mind following his compassion, humility, kindness, tolerance and such. Here goes:-
1. The Prophet never used soap or shampoo as there were none those days. So you must stop using shampoo or soap. No bath gel, no shaving either.
2. The Prophet brushed his teeth with a stick (no colgate or tooth brushes). So you should copy him and use a stick to "clean" your teeth!
3. You must refrain from using mobile phones or computers. And certainly no internet for you (anyway you have been secretly watching porn on the net too often!)
4. The Prophet was a goat herder. So to “follow the Prophet” you must now start rearing goats in Male’ or wherever you live. Give up any other profession that yo might be in.
5. The prophet rode camels and horses to travel from place to place. So now you and your buddies must get some of these animals for you guys to hop around the streets of Male'.
6.I know you would love this part. Marry 4 wives. Sex with adolescent girls and wine is the ultimate fantasy for you perverts.
The biggest joke is that you guys preach people to refrain from wine and women on earth but promise them that if they follow your teachings then people will go to Heaven where you are supposed to enjoy as many women as one wants (for men only) and as much wine as one desires! What do the women get? Also women? What an orgy!!
Yes, don't booze or womanize now, wait to die and then booze to your heart's content and womanize non stop! hehehe!
@ idiot
"Heck, you need to calm down as well.
A couple of answers you are looking for: Praying is a thing from heart. We can do whatever physical deeds whichever different ways different people preach us. But if our “hithu niyaiy” is not there in a sensible way, it is useless."
I don't see the answer to the unanswered question.
I will repeat for the umpteenth time, and here goes!
If you say there is nothing in Quran about making women cover from head to toe, then what is your answer to the fact that there is nothing in the Quran on how to conduct your daily prayers??
In other words how did you learn how to pray, if you expect to find every thing in the Quran?
By the way Quran does not elaborate on our prayers,ie. when to perform the adoration and prostration and so on.
??
@ heck 15th Dec 2010 4:34 P.M
You are more ignorant than I thought. The prayers are mentioned in Quruan. Don't you know that much? In fact a lot of details about praying is there in Quruan. So don't try to con others! If you are not sure go ahead and learn. I have no time to give all the references.Eg:
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78 and 30:18
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11:114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 24:58
@Musician – Firstly, I’m not sure what a bit of sarcasm or irony has got to do with honesty. I was simply having a little joke at your expense – I even put a smiley face on there to show you I was just having a bit of fun. Maybe you are a little sensitive?
A lot of what you say is not genuine. How can you say that “we are all free to believe as we wish, no-one is forcing anyone” when you know that it is illegal not to be a Muslim in Maldives. You must even name your child with an Islamic name. People across the world live in fear and sadness because they are forced to adopt the beliefs of others and you know that. There are plenty of evil preachments in both the Quran and the Bible. The story of Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son. God’s decree to the children of Israel that they could kill all the Amalachites etc and keep all the women to rape. The Hadith says that the punishment for being an apostate should be death. This is evil. But also I would argue that pretending to know the mind of God and the secrets of the universe in order to convince others is also an evil thing to do – and that is what these books are guilty of.
You can say 9/11 blah blah in such a disrespectful way but I’m afraid I cannot shrug off the killing of thousands of people in the name of religion or for any other reason. My heart bled for those innocent people jumping to their death, just as it bleeds for the Palestinian family whose children are shot dead for throwing stones at Israeli soldiers. My point about religious texts is that because they are so contradictory and nonsensical, people will interpret them in their own way and that can lead to people committing evil in the name of these books.
Your point about evil not being intrinsic to the religion itself is a good one but the reality is not the case. Look at the behaviour of the Pope in outlawing condoms and protecting child raping Priests. Look at the Imans who preach hate for the West in their Mosques across Europe, despite benefiting from all the West gives them (including state benefits). Look at the fatwahs that are issued by Mullahs against people like Salman Rushdie for writing a fictional novel. Of course, I do not think all religious people are bad or evil – most of them are good, honest people trying to make their way in the world, but they could do that anyway, and many evil people seem attracted to religion like moths to a flame because it is a good way to get power, money and influence.
I know the history of Islam and the mathematical and scientific advancements that were made in the past. Yes the Muslim world was enlightened once. But look now, almost all the technology and intellectual thought in the world is from other places. And that is a shame. Scientists are not born, they evolve – science must be taught and learnt, in order to be understood.
Regarding history books – you should understand that there is a vast difference between a historical account of something supported by evidence in the form of skeletons, equipment, fossils, etc and large amounts of very detailed first-hand accounts, compared to just a book on its own which says impossible things with absolutely no evidence except, “this is true because I say so”. That was a silly point.
The quote from Tirmidhi is simply nonsense. If I was to say to you “Put your faith in Satan, he will look after you just as he does the giraffes” would it mean anything?
Finally. No you cannot accuse me of prejudice. I have looked at the evidence and made my own conclusion. Of course I can’t prove there is no God. There might be. But there is also a chance that the universe was created by a Giant Turtle called Brian – it’s unlikely, but there is no way to prove it isn’t so. All we can do is say that there is absolutely no evidence for God or Brian, and so we will not believe in them until some turns up. I don’t know what caused the universe, just as the tiny microscopic insects which live in your eyelashes have no awareness of their surroundings. All I can do is look around with my eyes open. Even if there were a God – that doesn’t in any way validate any of the religions that are around today.
But I will say this, I will read the Quran. I have considered it many times but I have heard that it is a very disputed text, with some scholars claiming that it can only really be read in the original Arabic (which is beyond me). If you can suggest the most authoritative version then I will read it. It could be a great book full of wisdom and good – that wouldn’t mean that it’s claims about God are true though.
@ Zeenat
@ Ibrahim Mohamed
Heck is a gone case! He will never understand. He has no rational reply to our arguments. He needs to be in Guraidhoo.
Ok, no more long posts from me - I've taken up too much space here already.
I believe Maldives is not ready to accept a group of Israeli doctors just yet. Even if it is done with good intention, there is a wrong timing to everything. There is enough brawl in Maldives and you need to think twice before bringing in a group of people that will stir up sentiments even at best of times. Not a well thought out event...
@ Ilyas Ahmed
Please answer the question that heck has asked for the umpteenth time. I think it's a very important question.
@SJF
You make more sense of it all than all the holy books together!
@SJF Do you believe we have the responsibility of being parents, to guide our kids the right way. thats the reason Maldives didn't allow its citizens to convert other religion.
"The story of Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son". Do you forgot to mention like others what happened next.
"and that is what these books are guilty of". As far as I understand Bible has been changed a lot but Quran still is its true form. You cant find anything in that book that is wrong. It has so many scientific facts and amazingly so its proven right.
Also I am not proud of 9/11. Those are innocent people, Its a barbaric act of some evil guyz.
"Look at the behaviour of the Pope in outlawing condoms and protecting child raping Priests". Please, I would like to know I don't need to follow those Imams and Pope. We have been guided how to live by our prophet. I don't need to listen those preachers. Why do we always try to dig everything done by bad guyz. I don't understand?
"Yes the Muslim world was enlightened once". That was a time but later they failed to live what they have been thought by prophet. That is why now they are failed and I think you didnt know European destroyed muslim heritage and took everything with them and now they are master of everything.
“this is true because I say so”. Can you prove it wrong then. Till today nobody did it and the book itself challenges to all human kind. I am talking about a book that was thousand of years old!!! Amazing right
"If I was to say to you “Put your faith in Satan, he will look after you just as he does the giraffes” would it mean anything?" There is a huge difference between you and Trimdi and the prophet. Trimdi simply saying something which has been said by our prophet. Otherwise I wouldn't believe him.
"But there is also a chance that the universe was created by a Giant Turtle called Brian" Oh really then Why this Brian got so heavy body and became the slowest of all animals. Why it didn't became the top predator. I guess there is a genuine reason to believe that this Brian did not created this world.
"some scholars claiming that it can only really be read in the original Arabic". Why all of a sudden you believe what others have to say. I cant suggest you any book. If you are interested to read its not that difficult to get authentic book. Hope you will do it and clear all your doubts about Islam and religion. Good Luck
@ Z-nut and company
“Heck is a gone case! He will never understand. He has no rational reply to our arguments. He needs to be in Guraidhoo.”
The easiest way to shun an argument!
@ SJF - S(haitaanee) J(amaa’athuge) F(aaraveriyaa)
"my honest view is that morality and therefore good and evil are subjective terms and therefore only exist in the form which we decide."
Your views are quite strange in my view!
If GOOD and EVIL are subjective, where will you draw the line and WHO will decide where the line should be drawn?
Dear SJF,
It is not a silly thing to criticize Israel Since it is obviously a mafia state founded on gross abuses of human rights. Israel is an apartheid state and anyone who supports an apartheid state is in fact a morally a corrupted individual.
State of Israel is illegal by all international norms and I wonder why it would be a silly thing to criticize barbaric state such a as state of Israel?
You tell me , what crimes had the people of Palestine committed for that they deserve to be ethnically cleansed?
You tell me why you denying their rights to returns to their home land? I am referring to the people who were forcefully removed from their homes upon creation of barbaric state of your country?
@SJF
"But I will say this, I will read the Quran. I have considered it many times but I have heard that it is a very disputed text, with some scholars claiming that it can only really be read in the original Arabic (which is beyond me). If you can suggest the most authoritative version then I will read it."
Shakir, Pickthal and Yusuf Ali are all good translations. Further, here's a good site where you can read about the prophet of Islam (though it's brief, will be a good start to get an understanding about him):
http://prophetofislam.com/
@ heck (the nut),
Sorry heck, but I agree with Ilyas Ahmed.
@ heck 15th Dec 2010 4:34 P.M
You are more ignorant than I thought. The prayers are mentioned in Quruan. Don’t you know that much? In fact a lot of details about praying is there in Quruan. So don’t try to con others! If you are not sure go ahead and learn. I have no time to give all the references.Eg:
(1) The Dawn Prayer (Fajr in Arabic) given in 11:114, 24:58
(2) The Noon Prayer (Zuher in Arabic) , given in 17:78 and 30:18
(3) The Afternoon Prayer (Asr in Arabic), given in 2:238
(4) The sunset Prayer (Maghrib in Arabic), given in 11:114
(5) The Night Prayer (Isha in Arabic), given in 24:58
I have posted this comment earlier but was missed out by MN!
@ MN
Appreciate if you could post my comment today 1:19 and earlier at 1:05
Thanks a lot!
@ Ilyas Ahmed
"1. The Prophet never used soap or shampoo as there were none those days. So you must stop using shampoo or soap. No bath gel, no shaving either."
-Don't be kid. Why are you so much interested in soap and shampoo? Islam requires Muslims to be clean and hygienic and considers achieving CLEANLINESS as fifty percent of faith!
"2. The Prophet brushed his teeth with a stick (no colgate or tooth brushes). So you should copy him and use a stick to “clean” your teeth!"
-Are your Colgate ambassador? The Prophet(SAW) said if it was not difficult for Muslims, he would have required of them to brush their teeth before every prayer. Meaning 5 times a day! Is that not enough for oral hygiene? Any retard could have guessed the meaning!
"3. You must refrain from using mobile phones or computers. And certainly no internet for you (anyway you have been secretly watching porn on the net too often!)"
-Is this Hadith about refraining from computers narrated by Imam Ilyas Ahmed from Mahaldheeb?
"4. The Prophet was a goat herder. So to “follow the Prophet” you must now start rearing goats in Male’ or wherever you live. Give up any other profession that yo might be in."
-To follow the Prophet(SAW) you must enage in a Halal work and earn money. But are you sure he was only a goat herder? Then, who marketed and traded Khadijah's (RA) merchandise?
"5. The prophet rode camels and horses to travel from place to place. So now you and your buddies must get some of these animals for you guys to hop around the streets of Male’."
-The requirement is a 'savaaree'. It does not just mean camels or donkeys.
Check with the environment minister Aslam. I heard him recommend 'jamalu' as a 'savaaree' for island police.
"6.I know you would love this part. Marry 4 wives. Sex with adolescent girls and wine is the ultimate fantasy for you perverts."
-No I don't ! I don't think I will be able to deal with them equally and justly. I am hardly managing even with just one.
It's obvious how much hatred you harbour towards Islam. Totally brainwashed by orientalists and islam-haters!
"The biggest joke is that you guys preach people to refrain from wine and women on earth but promise them that if they follow your teachings then people will go to Heaven where you are supposed to enjoy as many women as one wants (for men only) and as much wine as one desires! What do the women get? Also women? What an orgy!!"
-Well! In a test if you try to steal the Cup and all the awards while the test is going on, is there any meaning of the test? You will be disqualified isn't it?
"Yes, don’t booze or womanize now, wait to die and then booze to your heart’s content and womanize non stop! hehehe!"
-Your are speaking of rewards, aren't you?
If, the idea of rewards and penalty for passing or failing the Trial 'against' evil temptations of this world are not subjective to the life in this world, how are you going to 'conceptualize' what reward and penalty means? If I just briefly say I will reward you with a 'hmmmmmm' and punish you by 'mmmmmm' does it mean anything?
You won't be able see the real meaning of reward and penalty unless you remove evil temptation out of the equation. That can only be achieved through good faith.
You know I believe that a fruitful argument cannot take place between two people who have already made up their mind about what they should believe.
Your are an Atheist and I am a Believer?
Looks like we have closed our minds with what we believe. Nothing more can penetrate inside - neither you nor me!
Question is, will anyone of us open our minds?
@ Heck
I am shocked that you know so little about "Salat or prayers" in Islam which is the second pillar of the religion.
From the time of Prophet Adam, all the Prophets of Allah commanded their followers to pray in accordance to the way as revealed to them by Allah.
For you to claim "that there is nothing in Quruan on prayers or how to pray" is not believing in one of the most important part of the Quruan! You of all people who claim to be a "PURE 100% GENUINE MUSLIM AND DEVOTED FAN OF THE PROPHET" knows nothing about true Islam or the Quruan!
Here are just a few more details in Quruan on prayers to illustrate how shallow your knowledge is.
Surat al Baqarah 238 stresses the importance of salat, particularly the 'Asr prayer:
"Guard strictly (five obligatory) As-Salawât (the prayers) especially the middle Salât (i.e. the best prayer-'Asr)."
Surat al Hud 114 covers the time period of all the five prayers, but if you wanted to get literal with the wording to suggest that it's only referring to three, they would be Sobh (or Fajr), Maghreb and 'Isha' (two ends of the day and some of the night) :
"And perform As-salât, at the two ends of the day and in some hours of the night [i.e. the five compulsory Salât (prayers)]. Verily, the good deeds remove the evil deeds (i.e. small sins). That is a reminder (an advice) for the mindful (those who accept advice)."
Surat al Israa' 78-79 refers to Zuhr and 'Asr', Maghreb, 'Isha', and Sobh prayers:
"Perform As-salât (Iqamât-as-Salât) from midday till the darkness of the night (i.e. the Zuhr, 'Asr, Maghreb, and 'Ishâ' prayers), and recite the Qur'ân in the early dawn (i.e. Sobh). Verily, the recitation of the Qur'ân in the early dawn is ever witnessed (attended by the angels in charge of mankind of the day and the night). (78) And in some parts of the night (also) offer the Salât (prayer) with it (i.e. recite the Qur'an in the prayer), as an additional prayer (Tahajjud optional prayer - Nawâfil) for you (O Muhammad saw).
So? You deny this???
@ Heck - I think our conversation has ended. I have answered every question you have put to me, whilst you have ignored every point I have made and accuse me of plagiarising and trying to convert people. You are beyond reason. Until you understand that spewing out quotes from the Quran doesn't prove anything, you will never be able to look at anything with free inquiry.
@ Chaachi - thank you.
@ Hassan - As I said before, there are many things about the state of Israel that I disagree with. You said "your country" - do you think I am from Israel, I am not. However, I do know some Jewish people, just as I know many Christians, Muslims and Hindus and what I object to is the demonising of Jewish people by Islamic scholars, just because of what it says in the Quran.
Israel is not a mafia state at all. Russia is an example of that. It is however, a state which puts its own well-being before anyone else's and will trample over other peoples in order to protect itself. But it is complicated, Israel as a state was drawn up by the British mainly and the Jews were put there surrounded by enemies on all sides - Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, so you can understand why it is so defensive in some ways.
Most Jewish people are just like you and me, just decent people trying to get along with their lives. They deserve a country of their own just as we do. The problem of course is religion - both the Jews and Palestinians claim a right to the same piece of land (because it is "holy"). Without this religious element a two-state solution would be possible and they could move on and live in peace. I listen to what Noam Chomsky says about these struggles, he is an amazing authority on the conflict.
Again, I am no supporter of Israel. But Maldives is far away and not affected by them - and if Israeli doctors are in Maldives they are there for one reason only, to help the sick.
@Ilyas Ahmed:- You are too naive to speak about prophet. Do you not know God's first revelation was about education. Do you know what it means and what had happened after that. Do you know the great Empire that Muslim's built in that time and the scientific advancement that they made."The Prophet was a goat herder. “follow the Prophet” you must now start rearing goat" Are you nuts. Just think about it even in that time not everybody is goat herder nor they leave their business caz prophet was goat herder. Are you out of your mind. Get the facts right before you speak.. cmon man thats too much. Be honest to yourself than you can speak about others.
@ Ilyas Ahmed
Learn the difference between HOW and WHEN.
All the references you gave are of no use on HOW to observe the prayer, not WHEN.
HOW many sets,HOW many prostrations, HOW many adorations,HOW many salaams,etc.
The question is HOW, I repeat HOW!
LOL!
*gasp*
@ musician
You are jumping in without reading my comments properly. Read them starting from the top and you will understand in what context I have written my post on "why we should not copy the life style of the bedouin Arabs from the days of the Prophet" under the misguided idea of "following" the Prophet.
I am talking of the need for the extremist, fundamentalists to get real and embrace modernity. To be a muslim does not mean dressing up like Thalibans and living in the Middle Ages.
@ heck
I have answered your umpteenth question. ie: "you claim that the Quruan does not provide any details about prayers!! And So how did muslims learn how to pray" .
I have exposed your lack of basic knowledge about Islam and provided you details of what Quruan says about prayers . see my comments 16 Dec 1:19 P.M and 16 Dec 2:29 P.M
Satisfied?
@ Ilyas Ahmed
You are trying too hard to fool everyone.
Now kindly go back to the original argument!
If I remember correctly it was about Islamic dress for women.
Makaru veri kamun gos hadhdhu fahanalhafa, dho?
@ SJF
"@ Heck – I think our conversation has ended."
As you wish.
But I don't understand why Z-nut and company, is in a hurry to END the conversation with me!
@SJF
''Most Jewish people are just like you and me, just decent people trying to get along with their lives. They deserve a country of their own''
Answer me this question. Do you believe land grabbing is legal or illegal?
do you know why western governments emphatically and boldly supports Israel..If Israel is annihilated out of middle east, they will have to go back to Europe where Europeans are extremely racist like the current jweish state.
So another Hitler might come out to forefront with a nuclear furnace to burn, roast European jewish people again ironically repeating the history.
@SJF
"Most Jewish people are just like you and me, just decent people trying to get along with their lives. They deserve a country of their own just as we do. The problem of course is religion – both the Jews and Palestinians claim a right to the same piece of land.."
The problem is that the so called Jews in Israel today are Zionists who are actually a European people who immigrated and colonized Palestine – a European people with no proven historical links to the ancient Israelites – and whose great, great recorded ancestors have never set foot there.
The problem is that the state was founded by ethnically cleansing the land – the orchestrated massacres and eradication of hundreds of Palestinian villages in 1948 is a known fact documented even by some Israeli historians. Those historians were then denounced by the Zionists as self-hating Jews. To claim that having escaped the horrors of Auschwitz-Birkenau, Treblinka, and Dachau is a justification for the murder, expulsion, and occupation of another guiltless people is just beyond belief!
And this saga is continuing even today. Demolition of Palestinian homes, grabbing their lands and building Jewish settlements on those lands are daily events in Palestine. Here are some recent events:
Al-Quds home razed despite court order
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/152335.html
Israel razes more Palestinian properties
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/152420.html
Israeli forces destroy another mosque
http://edition.presstv.ir/detail/152681.html
Palestinian olive groves set on fire
http://www.presstv.com/detail/153689.html
@heck on Tue, 14th Dec 2010 2:04 PM
"That’s a bit of an exaggeration. You haven’t been listening and paying attention.We are against Zionist ‘baigandu’ only.They can take their Eyes-from-Zion and ‘bend and thrust’ them in a more suitable place in their own bodies!Wake up and don’t talk in the middle of your sleep."
I was and am wide awake as one can be when I wrote my comments. Kid, perhaps you should grow a brain to understand what everyone's saying.
You are saying that you and all the extremists are protesting against the 'zionists' only and not the Jews! I seriously doubt that. All of you quote that Quran during your arguments, which apparently says to rebel against the Jews. I ask myself, can a Jew do no good at all? Are they not creatures of God too? Why would Islam allow Muslim men to take wives from Christians and Jews if they are so evil? For sure, you would not leave your children and home in the care of a drug dealer or murderer, but yet you can marry a Zionist Jew and bear their offspring?
Therefore I fully stand by my comments earlier. If you so wish to reject services from these 'infidels', educate doctors who are Muslim and who wouldn't
steal eyes.
As for :
‘all of them will be in the fire except one.’ The companions asked. ‘Who are they O Messenger of Allah,’ Holy Prophet (pbuh) said. `They are those who will be like me and my companions.’
How on earth do you know or the rest of the extremist zealots know for sure that there way is the chosen way that will lead to Heaven? Did God speak to you? I am sure there are minor controversies between what you may believe and that of Bin Ladin or Zakir Naik or whoever else. How do you know who is the most pious one of them all? Stop trying to shove your poppycock and fairytales down our throats.
heck on Wed, 15th Dec 2010 4:18 PM
"Still hiding behind them? Come out, come out wherever you are!"
No one is hiding except you. At least we have the decency to use our given name, while YOU hide behind a foolish unIslamic 'nickname'!
=====
Hats off to the likes of SJF, Ilyas Ahmed and Zeenat! It sure is not worth our time to 'reason' or even acknowledge idiots like heck.
@ Boda - I obviously believe that invasion of land is illegal - I'm not sure what that has to do with the average Jewish person though. It's the actions of the Israeli government that are abhorrent, not the people as a whole.
Anyway, do you think that suicide bombing is legal? Or murder, firing rockets into civilian areas, etc, etc. I don't hear much from the Muslim community denouncing these crimes when they are committed by fellow Muslims. Two wrongs do not make a right - even if every Jew was a violent murderer, what would give you the right to be as bad as that and retaliate?
Western governments in the main do not back Israel. It is only America who does. If you look at how the UN votes it is always these two countries which veto any possible conflict resolution.
European countries are not racist compared to middle eastern countries. There are churches, mosques, synegogue and temples all over Europe - how many churches are there in Maldives these days?
However, the Jewish people are the most persecuted race in the history of our planet and because of this there is some guilt by a large percentage of the western world. Just look at how some Maldivians beliefs about Jews that have been written here, when most Maldivians probably don't know any Jews.
I would like to know where was Maldivian outrage when the Kosovo Albanians (Muslims) were being ethnically cleansed and the US and UK went to war with Serbia to save them?
Where is your outrage about the terrible things Al'Quaeda are doing in the name of Islam? Where is your anger at Saudi Arabia for pleading with the US to go to war against Iran? The human rights violations of Russia, China, Zimbabwe, Somalia, North Korea?
You should be standing up against violence and injustice all over the world, not just hysterically preaching against Israel simply because your Imams feed you a pack of lies from the stone age.
Israel is not going to go away. They have the most technologically advanced army in the world and they are backed by the only super-power in the world. The only way that Palestine can fight back is by embracing the rest of the western world, making friends and showing that they are not all vengeance-seeking barbarians, but decent people who can be modern partners and friends - Israel cannot be bullied, it must be shamed into changing its behaviour by risking becoming an outcast in the global community.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdfzC5NNAew
@ abdullah
I agree with everything you've said.
But killing innocent children with a suicide bomb or rocket achieves nothing - except creating sympathy for Israel.
@ Ilyas Ahmed
Ilyas - where are you?
You can't hide away like that! It's not fair. Keke!
HOW many sets,HOW many prostrations, HOW many adorations,HOW many salaams,etc.??
You have answered the trigonometry paper again. Today we had Calculus. So no marks for you.
Result: Fail
Advice: Read instructions first
Hehe!
@ Moosa
"How on earth do you know or the rest of the extremist zealots know for sure that there way is the chosen way that will lead to Heaven? Did God speak to you?"
I think God's Messenger (SAW) has spoken in authentic Hadhith.
So who in your view? Those who do not follow the Quran and Sunnah? Why?
SJF, I don't agree the team are here for purely medical help. Ofcourse they are qualified to do that, but as you understand too, that they are trying to survive amidst a lot of Arab or Muslim countries, and would do anything for the cause, just like Muslims(fundamentalists from both sides ofcourse). Most of the normal Israelis are also qualified for multitasks, because of the survival necessity. And the ones that are sent out on missions are even more so qualified that way.
I understand your humour about Brian the turtle; I'd give it more serious thought though, if it was an octopus:-)
Heck, I do not see any merit, or it worthwhile, but I'll answer you this ONCE. I think you are being dodgy in so many ways.
I'm sure you'll go on and on answering, but while you do, remember to look in Quran what it says about calling another Muslim a nonbeliever too!
You seemed adamant when you initially talked about following the prophet (SAW) right down to his hair style, but now seem to look for excuses to wriggle out of his habits you don't fancy practicing. (The answers you gave to Ilyas's 6 points as opposed to your old stance).
Stealing exam papers is funny too. Are you aimed for 7 or 40 or 70 virgins if you pass? You did not address the question of what the women are bound for in your beliefs. Perhaps they'll get 1/70th of their husband if the husband wished, after taking care of their children and sharing their husbands in this life.
You did not comment on Idiot's answer to your question about most Arabs being arrogant, instead you dodged it. I hope you find out how to pray though. I do!
By the way can you pls check for me who were there first, while we are talking about who got chased out by who? I don't yet know if kukulhu or bis is dhoshi and now I don't even know which one is the kukulhu or bis:-)
You only now realised this kind of arguments will "not be fruitful" and "only close up our minds".
This sort of negative discussions only produce negative results. May Allah guide us on the right path.
@ SJF
Even you can't escape like that! We have unfinished business as yet.
I repeat.
If GOOD and EVIL are subjective, where will you draw the line and WHO will decide where the line should be drawn?
@ Moosa
"Therefore I fully stand by my comments earlier. If you so wish to reject services from these ‘infidels’, educate doctors who are Muslim"
Too much exaggeration!
First you need to take a deeeeeep breath and caaaaaaalm down!
I never ever checked if my doctor was an Israeli or Indian. I just made sure that he was a doctor registered to practice in Maldives, in a clinic or a hospital.
But even a kid would know there is dangerous, ridiculous and scheming symbolism with An-Eye-From-Zion.
Why are you being so difficult, for God's sake?
@SJF"I would like to know where was Maldivian outrage when the Kosovo Albanians (Muslims) were being ethnically cleansed and the US and UK went to war with Serbia to save them"
UK and US went war with Serbia, bcaz its the only country in that region that would go along with Russia. west cant stand for that. They didnt go there as liberators. and u can see that now.
I am not supporter of Mullas but A time will come Palestine will be liberated not even the superpower can stop them.
Have you read the holy book? or still want to stay in the dark?
@ Musician - sorry but that's not even remotely factually accurate. The only reason the West fought Serbia was to stop them from killing the Kosovans after the break up of Yugoslavia.
After that was achieved, the US and UK armies left. Bosnia is now it's own country and Serbia is left to do as it wishes (whether that is supporting Russia or not).
I too hope the people of Palestine are "liberated" one day - but that will only come about via a two state solution. And when it comes, it will be despite religion, not because of it.
I've said I will read the Quran - but even if I like it and agree with everything said in it, none of that makes it holy or true. I may read a novel and enjoy it, that doesn't mean I should believe everything written in it. You can try to interpret anything so as to warp it to coincide with your beliefs - but it's not true.
Religion is simply man's first attempt at reason and understanding, and the Quran is just a book, written by ancient men with no knowledge of our times or the world around them.
Here is another couple of questions for you (which will go unexplained like all the rest); why doesn't the Quran mention aeroplanes, or going to the moon, or the television or internet, or anything that could not have been conceived by people at that time but would no doubt be apparent to God?
Why do revelations by God always come through an illiterate stone age peasant in the desert, rather than in China (where they could read and write in the time of Muhammed) or why not to someone today?
Why is Allah so incredibly weak? Why does he need humans to protect him and his religion? - if he was real it would be self-evident, like physics or chemistry, or maths?
Why is he jealous of other Gods? Why does he care so much how you wear your hair, who you have sex with, whether you eat pork - has he got nothing better to do? Conversely, he seems strangely unconcerned with human suffering all over the world.
There are so, so many questions and the religious cannot answer any of them. But they are all cleared up by the answer "there is no God".
@ Barabo
"I’m sure you’ll go on and on answering, but while you do, remember to look in Quran what it says about calling another Muslim a nonbeliever too!"
Dear Barabo - I have been commenting on MN for a long time and I think I can smell people by their grammar and speech.
I suspect people like Ahmed Aliased (anony), Hilath and other various atheist are commenting on MN under various names.
You sound a bit innocent of what has been taking place in Maldives since a news government had been in place.
I wish you would grow up and study in the field of Chronology so you could one day sit down and write down the events and get a lesson from it.
@ SJF - S(haitaanee) J(amaa’athuge) F(aaraveriyaa)
"sorry but that’s not even remotely factually accurate. The only reason the West fought Serbia was to stop them from killing the Kosovans after the break up of Yugoslavia."
--No, because they wanted to create a teeny weeny Muslim state which would heavily depend on US aid, and in turn US could spy on Russia through Serbia near their border, as both countries share strong ethnic and cultural relations. The trick is cutting the Serbia cake and take away a small piece by way of Kosovo which would be subservient to US.
"After that was achieved, the US and UK armies left. Bosnia is now it’s own country and Serbia is left to do as it wishes (whether that is supporting Russia or not)."
--No, Muslim Bosnia should have been bigger if US supported them in the right spirit. Now the country has a rotating presidency among three ethnic groups. They did not want Muslims to control such a large area. So they made the cake to be divided again. All the three groups would strive to gain US support, thereby US controlling all their affairs.
"I too hope the people of Palestine are “liberated” one day – but that will only come about via a two state solution. And when it comes, it will be despite religion, not because of it."
--No, if Palestinians were Zionists they would not demand for freedom. So it's because of religion.
"I’ve said I will read the Quran – but even if I like it and agree with everything said in it, none of that makes it holy or true. I may read a novel and enjoy it, that doesn’t mean I should believe everything written in it. You can try to interpret anything so as to warp it to coincide with your beliefs – but it’s not true."
--So you think a divinely revealed holy book should not be recorded on a book? All holy books should be LIVE from Heaven, like connecting to the internet?
"Religion is simply man’s first attempt at reason and understanding, and the Quran is just a book, written by ancient men with no knowledge of our times or the world around them."
--Religion (Quran)is the operations manual for life on Earth by the Creator.
"Here is another couple of questions for you (which will go unexplained like all the rest); why doesn’t the Quran mention aeroplanes, or going to the moon, or the television or internet, or anything that could not have been conceived by people at that time but would no doubt be apparent to God?"
--Why wouldn't your text book on a particular subject contain everything about it and all answers written concisely? Why should there be a teacher?
"Why do revelations by God always come through an illiterate stone age peasant in the desert, rather than in China (where they could read and write in the time of Muhammed) or why not to someone today?"
-Prophet Solomon (PBUH) was a rich person, not an illiterate peasant in the desert. I think God looks into your heart. Not the size of your country or how affluent you are to bear the Message.
"Why is Allah so incredibly weak? Why does he need humans to protect him and his religion? – if he was real it would be self-evident, like physics or chemistry, or maths?"
--The 'hatred' you harbour towards Muslims, and the love display towards Atheists and Secularists - is it self evident? What shape is hatred and what shape is love?
"Why is he jealous of other Gods? Why does he care so much how you wear your hair, who you have sex with, whether you eat pork – has he got nothing better to do? Conversely, he seems strangely unconcerned with human suffering all over the world."
--I think because He loves his subjects and He knows that the idols and false practices which led them astray cannot save them on the Day of Judgment and He knows what we hide in our hearts. For eg; If you are a fan of David Beckham you will admire him as well as try to resemble him in all aspects.
"There are so, so many questions and the religious cannot answer any of them. But they are all cleared up by the answer “there is no God”."
--No, you are going through a phase. Just like famous Muslim converts. Once you change you will come to know what went wrong and what was holding you from the truth. You would even grow a beard.