Comment: Death penalty for infanticide is infantile

Among the many paths in life that lead a woman to kill her newborn baby, it is never this: one day she wakes up with an overwhelming urge to kill.

In order to satisfy that urge, she goes out and seduces/forces a hapless, innocent man to have sexual intercourse with her and to impregnate her. Still with the ultimate end-goal of killing in mind, she covertly carries the baby inside her. After nine-months of ingenious methods of hiding her ballooning figure from all eyes, she gives birth in perilous conditions without any medical attention.

Finally, she experiences the pleasure of killing which she had anticipated and meticulously planned for nine long months. And with immense gratification, she reaches out and makes sure her baby’s first breath is also its last.

Infanticide is not a new phenomenon – cases of it have been recorded from the time human records began, and research has shown a myriad of socially-generated causes behind the offence. Rates escalate in patriarchal societies where women are regarded as second-class citizens, and where crimes against women are on the rise. A recent report published by TrustLaw Women, an online organisation that offers free legal assistance to women, shows that infanticide is a common marker among countries that offer the worst environments for women to live in.

What is driving our women to such desperation? We do not know for sure, because we have invested neither time nor effort to find out. Crime statistics, however, give more than just a hint.

The thin line between perpetrator and victim

Police statistics for 2010 show over 500 sexual offence cases and 299 arrests for the same. By April this year, 58 cases of sexual offences had already been reported to the police.

In the last few months, Minivan News has reported on a whole range of random violent sexual offences against women from gang rape to rape of a 74 year-old. Added to these are less random rapes and sexual assaults occurring closer to home that run the whole gamut from decades-long sexual abuse of daughters by fathers to the attempted to rape of a mother by her son.

In the latest case, reported last month, five men are alleged to have raped an 18-year-old girl in Laamu Atoll Maabaidhoo. Her mother found her after two hours of searching, slumped under a coconut palm, her clothes in tatters and unable to walk from all the injuries the men had inflicted on her.

In March this year, a gang of 15 men abducted, drugged and raped a 20-year-old woman on the island of Hithadhu in Seenu Atoll. They recorded their vile acts on a mobile phone, for post-rape pleasure. Yet, as a coalition of NGOs highlighted recently, ‘not a single case of ‘rape’ [was] in the statistics maintained by either the PG [Prosecutor General] or the Criminal Court’.

Why? Rape is not a crime under our current Penal Code.

We live in a society where years of ‘religious’ preaching and traditions that have refused to bow to the winds of progress have taught women to accept it as their due to be beaten up by husbands for perceived marital transgressions.

Seventy percent of our women believe this to be the case. One in every seven secondary school students are sexually abused, according to an unpublished 2009 report by UNICEF, a vast majority of them girls. A Gender Ministry report in 2007 found that over 12 percent of Maldivian women between the age of 15 and 49 are sexually abused as a child.

The situation is worse for girls in Male’ than elsewhere, where more than 16 percent of girls under the age of fifteen are sexually abused. This means that of every 100 girls you walk by on the streets of Male’ and its auxiliary islands, 16 have suffered sexually at the hands of a man. How many of these offences end up in unwanted and enforced pregnancies?

Some of the girls are in a position to travel abroad for abortions – and yes, whether we like it or not, it is happening; and it will continue to happen.

Refusing to see that this behaviour is not merely a sin, but also a social issue that affects every human society, does not make it into a religious problem alone with only the harshest of religious solutions. Those who cannot have their unwanted babies surgically removed, resort to dumping them somewhere, drowning them, or subject them to worse forms of mutilation and death. These girls/women need help.

Capital punishment is not a deterrent as evidence from various countries where it is in force has shown. The fate of previous perpetrators would be the last thing on the mind of a woman about to commit such an act. If she were capable of rational thought during those desperate moments, killing a baby would be the last thing she would do.

Immaculate conceptions?

The learned men at Adhaalath see only one reason for the rise of infanticides: the “rising popularity of fornication“, and have called for the death of mothers guilty of the crime. It is not sufficient that some of the women have been jailed for life while the men, who must surely have been involved, have walked scot-free.

Without the existence of a crime defined as ‘rape’, it is easy to categorise every such brutal violation of a woman as ‘fornication’ – the type that is only ever ‘popular’ among depraved, misogynistic men who seem to view preying on vulnerable women as a popular sport. By calling for the death of the women who become victims of such men while remaining wholly silent on the men themselves, the ‘scholars’ at Adhaalath are encouraging such behaviour among the men.

And, by taking such a stance on this pressing social concern, Adhaalath is making itself not just a misnomer, but is turning a blind eye to its own slogan proudly displayed on its masthead taken from Surath An-Nisã (The Women): ‘Allah commands you […] that when you judge between people, you judge with justice’ (4:58).

Criticism of Adhaalath’s views, and that of other religious bodies in the country, do not always arise from ‘mad secularists’, as is their constant accusation. Nor is criticism of these views meant to suggest that religion has no role to play in our society. It does; and there is much Adhaalath and other such institutions can do.

Why not preach against rape in their Friday sermons when they have the ears of most of the country’s male population within their reach?

Why not speak then of the respect with which Islam says women are to be treated?

Why not drive the point home that at least 50 percent of the blame [in cases where the conception arose from consensual activity] lies with the men?

Why not repeat the message until it penetrates through the thick haze of misogyny that seem to envelop many among them that women have not been put on this earth for their depraved ‘pleasures’, sexual or otherwise?

Adhaalath, and other religious bodies, could also use their proven ability for fundraising to raise money for proper research into the rising problem of infanticide.

Or to help boost the adoption programme under Islamic teachings that the Gender Department has been trying hard to get off the ground. Or perhaps to provide funding for a shelter for abused young women or a safe place for young girls turning to juvenile delinquency. None of them have proper care; none of them have a place to go. The buruga may cover, but it does not shelter; and being covered up is not the same as being protected.

There are many different ways to help, and many ways that Islam obliges its followers to help those in need; but they can only become clear when the dogma is put aside and room for reason made.

No doubt the next ‘religious’ edict calling for the death of yet another disturbed or disadvantaged group in society would be prefixed with the customary Bismillah. If only, instead of repeating it like some meaningless chant, a moment is taken to consider its meaning: ‘In the name of Allah, the most compassionate, the most merciful…’ Wither the compassion, Adhaalath?

All comment pieces are the sole view of the author and do not reflect the editorial policy of Minivan News. If you would like to write an opinion piece, please send proposals to [email protected]


37 thoughts on “Comment: Death penalty for infanticide is infantile”

  1. A highly emotive article. Well written, concise and bearing a much-needed message - that of the need for study and research.

    Current efforts at curtailing abuse of women, sexual or otherwise, and children in general have failed mainly due to the lack of studies into attitudes, perceptions and contributing factors towards their prevalence.

    The studies noted in this article, among others, have been useful in emphasizing the alarming need for further study. Adalat is a political party, therefore it is questionable whether raising funding for unbiased research would be their key priority.

    The government itself could go a long way towards funding some R&D efforts now and then. It must be noted that progressive Maldivian governments do not give much attention to the Department of Planning or NGOs and think-tanks who focus on doing research. The value of research is misunderstood in our society. This might improve in the future. However, current generations do not understand or put much stock in pre-planning either.

    A little help from the Ministry of Education towards imparting the importance of planning beforehand to students would help a lot as well.

    True, the government cannot do everything. However, in an economy such as ours, the business community itself has very little funds for R&D efforts. Also local human resource capacity is lacking in the department as well.

    Thank you Azra, for underscoring the problem in addition to your article on the plight of the vulnerable in our society.

  2. can this article be translated to Dhivehi in general terms please? its important that this kind of opinion be heard by as many maldivian women as possible. unfortunately not many maldivian women will have access to this article or understand what 50 percent of what is said in this.

  3. Another Adhaalath bashing article (: Its sad that these supposedly "well written articles" are so biased against religion that its a complete waste of effort reading it through to end..

    here are somethings i have observed:
    Adhaalath did not call for anything new. They are just calling for what Muslims has been calling for all these centuries. that is establishment of sharia. Under the sharia unrepentant fornicators are stoned to death and nobody needs to be ashamed about it. Adhaalath is NOT CALLING FOR EXECUTION OF MOTHERS WHO JUST BORE A BABY OUT OF WEDLOCK. Portraying as if Adhaalath did this is a lie. I have read their statement on the issue in their website and have given the link in an earlier comment.
    2. Khaathibs regularly gives Friday sermon in mosques across the country in these familiar themes like treating women honourably, abstinence from unlawful sex etc.. but such sermons can only be heard by people who make an effort to go to mosque regularly. Atheists, feminists and Adhaalath bashers cannot hear them as their aversion to Islam prevents them from hearing anything good about Islam or Muslims.
    3."Capital punishment is not a deterrent as evidence from various countries..." Now where is this evidence? Just nicely arranging words in a playful orderliness does not make the statement true! This is not a closed and done debate in the secular world yet. This is an ongoing debate. But for us Muslims there is no debating the hadhoodhs of Allah. If the writer is not a Muslim then at-least do not treat this subject as a done and finished debate yet, because it clearly is not.
    4. "The buruga may cover, but it does not shelter..." This is another meaningless piece of rhetoric. burugaa is worn not to cover or to shelter. It is worn by muslim women because its an obligatory dress code in islam. As for shelter, the best shelter a women can have is within a stable family.
    5. "... Bismillah. If only, instead of repeating it like some meaningless chant,..."
    For the kuffar Bismillah is indeed a meaningless chant. But for us Muslims its full of meaning. Just as the kuffar hate Islam so much, we Muslims love Islam so much. But the kuffar makes so much noise about love while they are filled with so much hatred. So much hatred that even the Basmalah did not escape their derision. subhaanallah!

  4. you have written "...killing a baby would be the last thing she would do." this is the concept/idea adalath and islam is against. Killing an innocent baby should never be the last thing; killing is not an option. if girls do not report being raped, then how do you know the baby is a consequence of rape? yes there are rape cases unreported and babies born out of it, nonetheless alot of babies are a result of willful sex.

  5. Well presented arguments and a good wake up call to Adhaalath, if they are willing to listen.

    Overall, society must also play a vital role in ensuring that victims of sexual abuse and violence are not further victimized by society's judgments and gossips. We are too quick to label any women who bears a child outside of marriage, as a slut or a whore and further alienate both the mother and the child. Our society must learn to care about each other....we are so quick to distribute videos of such rape cases or abuse cases, and view it as some sort of entertainment, without giving a thought to how the victim would feel. Would we even dare to watch it, if the victim was one of our own loved ones?

    Granted that our legal system, Government, Parliament and politicians have constantly let such victims down, but we as a society have the power and the independence to stop stigmatizing the victims and to provide a support system to help them deal with and recover from the terrible ordeal that they have been subjected to. We should come off our high horses and stop being so judgmental.

  6. You are asking a group with an ideology that women are inferior in all walks of life to help with problems of un- wedlock child.
    Adhaalath party will be willing to help her to clean her soul by passing a verdict of giving her one hundred lashes and maybe jailing her for rest of her life. And also brand her innocent child as bastard and deprive him or her to have a normal life.

  7. Azra Naseem stands up against just punishment for baby killers !!!

    Whatever reason/excuses ... those (men/women) who kill those innocent babies deserves death. Do not try to sugar coat.

    Look deep into those dead babies' eyes and then write your article. In order to gain support for baby killers, you have pitched the line "bash Adhaalath"; which works every time.

    Baby killers deserve death !

  8. Rasheed

    Could you please tell us where you got your information that the burugaa is worn by muslim women because its an obligatory dress code in islam? I am doing some research on this matter and would be grateful for sourcing of your position that muslim women have to wear burugaa. I have not seen this in any of the translations I have read of the Quraan and neither is it stipulated from what I have read of the Sunnath. Everything I have read thus far calls on women to dress modestly and not to promote our femaleness to entice men.
    Where does it say that a muslim woman has to wear burugaa? Please educate me.

  9. Rasheed, you have raised an issue here that I believe has a lot of us puzzled. You say that "Under the sharia unrepentant fornicators are stoned to death and nobody needs to be ashamed about it". Then why can you tell me is the man protected from it all? Why is only the woman punished? Why is the womans word not accepted? Two people engage in an act that creates a life. Why does the Islamic Sharia believe the word of the man and set him free? Why does the Shariah not force the man to take responsibility for what he has done, and give his name to his child and his inheritance?

    A child is created from the DNA of two people. When this happens outside marriage, we as muslims are advised it is best to keep it secret and get married as soon as possible. No one except Allah needs to know. And Allah is all forgiving. For we are Insaanun. And we are weak and we sin. But we have the opportunity to repent, thaubaa ve and recommit to a life of purity integrity and service. This is the essence of islam. This is the beauty of Islam.

    Unfortunately in most cases the father runs away and refuses to take responsibility for his role in creating this new life. This is where the nightmare for the mother begins.

    For in most Islamic societies the justice system punishes the mother when a child is born outside marriage. The father gets away with it if he wishes to as you need eyewitnesses to the act of sin. The woman ofcourse cannot with the very visible growing belly of a pregnant woman a very visible disclosure of the sin that was committed. More reason, argues the Islamic scholar that the woman should know better before she engages in sex without marriage. Because the punishment is so severe and she cannot hide.

    Oh yes she can, she can hide very well, and she does. Surprising what rolls and rolls of bandage and clever dressing can do. But then comes the time to bring new life into this world. A life that ends no sooner than they see it...killed by their own mother.

    Killed because the mother cannot see a future for herself or her child in a society that punishes her and her children born outside marriage so severely. Children born out of marriage have no rights to their fathers name and have no rights for inheritance from the father. There is no child support financially or emotionally, from the father. And the social burden the mother has to carry?

    And as the drama rolls on generation after generation, no discussion at all about paternity testing. Why are the Islamic Scholars silent on paternity testing? Wy are the fathers of the children born out of marriage, out of rape, allowed to go free? Why are they not being held responsible?

    I think its time the Ministry of Islamic Affairs took responsibility for bringing clarity to a matter that has gone unaddressed for much too long.

  10. @sameena... I wish you well on your studies and research. Here is an important question that could be asked. Include this in your resarch queries also. ie. Which ulema or fugahaa allowed women not to wear burugaa? Burugaa i mean is what is understood in our dhivehi language, the covering of head neck etc, everywhere except face and hand. That's the general definition understood by common folks. Is there any dissent among muslim ulema that contemporary western dress code is not appropriate for muslim women? Surely we have ppl like Maumoon who did not believe muslim women has to covere their heads. But who is he anyway..?

    Now i suspect your 'research' is more about picking up points in the discussion and score points. But remember this. Abu Bakru did not need any research when his friend the prophet is said to have ascended to miuraaj! He just believed (call it blind faith) and he never regretted his decision. If we want to argue and want to score debate points than that's clearly not worth the risk. In the matter of islam its either the fire of hell or the bliss of jannath al mauwa. So ask Allah of hidhaayaa and He will open the gates of ilm for you. Learn ilm not for the sake of ilm but for the sake of ibaadhaath to Allah. The question of women's burugaa and veil is so evident from sharia it has never been a point of debate with the salaf! However if you have still not arrived at this topic in sharia then your search for the answers has clearly not begun yet. Nor are you in the right place (Minivan news?) to search for the finer points of islamic sharia. salaams

  11. @shafeea.
    Man is by no means protected from stoning in sharia. He just escaped because his tummy did not bulge! But that does not mean he is less condemned.
    Also in islam ppl are retain their individuality even after they marry. So you don't have to forsake your maiden name and take the name of your husband. That's more a western culture thing than islam.
    As for the man leaving the poor women to bear the burden of punishment which was caused by him and her mutually, that's not the defect of sharia, but rather a defect of his character. A very heartless brute of a person (man) would forsake the women and disown the baby he helped make when it comes to establishing the parentage of the baby.
    As for establishing paternity through dna testing, Islam is a very common sense religion which can accommodate scientific progress and innovation. Follow some discussions here on this:

  12. There are certain points that need clarification.
    The issue here seems to be killing of one's own child. The term for that is not infanticide, which is the killing of an infant without any reference to the killer, but 'filicide' (filius'filia = son or daughter, cide = to kill)
    Is the author's arguement here to justify filicide or to argue that such an act may not always constitue 'first degree murder, that is, pre-meditated murder. If this is the arguement then one may agree with the author here.

    There is also a fine line between the mother being held responsible for her pregnancy due to rape and rape being a justification to commit filicide. In a rape case the mother, even according to the traditional understanding of Islamic Law, cannot be held responsible. To prove that it was rape, 'four witnesses ARE NOT' required'. Such testimony, which is open to different intepretations, is called for in proving that one has committed adultery or fornication. A baby born out of wedlock is no proof, even according to Islamic Law that a woman has committed such an act.

    Where are the stats to prove that filicide "[r]ates escalate in patriarchal societies where women are regarded as second-class citizens ..."
    Here are some recent cases of filicide in the US, which cannot be described as a patricarchial society or women are regarded as second class citizens:

    a mother from Sacamento, California, killed her 6 week old daughter in March 17 2011;

    A 22 yr old mother from Jacksonville, Florida, who was arrested in Jan 2010, for killing her 3 month old baby was given a 50 year jail term recently.

    A 26 year old mother from Bartlesville, California was arrested for killing her 10 day old baby. The case was reported in many newspapers including Australia's Herald Sun on 20/7/2011.

    A 17 year old mother from San Joquin, California, killed her baby in a bathroom after giving birth. The case was reported on 9/2/2011.

    Well regardless of the circumstances, it is strange that one justifies murder, in this case, filicide. And it is even stranger to find, after reading many of the posts here, many who do not seem to differenciate between extra-marital sex and filicide. Are their hatred of Islam so intense that they are willing to condone murder because, the motivation and the raison d'etre, according to them, arise from Maldivian society's (which is largely Muslim) unwillingnes, albeit yet, for licentiousness and moral laxity in sexual relations?

  13. Correction: The date for the case of the mother from Bartlesville, California is 13/1/2011 and not 20/7/2011. Apology for the error

  14. Helloo unfortunate woman,next time you go out and get pregnant & if for some unknown reason you secretly happen to carry a fetus in the womb,letting it fully form into a human being&after bearing the torture of labour pains,lady,better not kill the human that you helped to develop...just go give it for adoption or just keep it at an orphanage or just somewhere!..kindly don't consider the option of killing..

    let the government keep it,ministry of health & family etc etc will be more than willing to help.there are lots of single,unmarried women in Maldives who happily get pregnant for about ten times,give birth at hospitals and give away some of their newborns or just keeps some of them with's all okay long you unwed mother just lets the baby be,no one's gonna harm you or kill you, ok?

  15. Women should use cucumbers to gratify their libidos...why?
    1. You wont contract STD's
    2. You wont get impregnated
    3. Its good for your health
    4. You can kill a baby cucumber between your legs instead to quench your thirst to commit infanticide
    5. Its good for our economy

  16. We need to know what the average person thinks about this subject. What their attitudes are. How these attitudes come about and are reinforced. How to battle them with ideas and social means.

    We need to address the issue through changing social behaviors by socially acceptable means and challenging entrenched behaviors which are harmful.

    The civil society, media and government need to come together in addressing this issue.

  17. This article is not against Islam. This gives exactly the same message and advice that the Quran gives to Humankind.

    Thanx a lot Azra for your message to the needy community of the Maldives

  18. Islam teaches us to find out the root-cause of every crime or sin. Islam is not a religion that only asks us to blindly punish and that's the main reason Islam brought us a Shaiah system that encourages us establish a Justice system for all humankind. If we look at Singapore, a person found carrying drugs into Singapore has no chance to repeat the crime any more which is as per Islamic Shariah.

    Here what we the Maldivian authorities like the Majlis and the Judiciary has failed is using technology & science in the field of Shariah or Justice System and that we are facing crimes like murder, theft and CORRUPTION

  19. shafeea you said:

    "A child is created from the DNA of two people. When this happens outside marriage, we as muslims are advised it is best to keep it secret and get married as soon as possible. No one except Allah needs to know"

    this is bothereing me. do u mean its ok to get married secretly if you get pregnant? i think islam does not allow the marrige to take place until the birth of baby. And the baby will not be acknowledged as son of the husband (if they choose to marry) Also both the mother and the biological fathes punishment as per sharia will stand.

  20. Well said Nute ! This is EXACTLY what it is. Any heinous crime is acceptable by these sort of writers after such reasoning.

    "Are their hatred of Islam so intense that they are willing to condone murder because, the motivation and the raison d’etre, according to them, arise from Maldivian society’s (which is largely Muslim) unwillingnes, albeit yet, for licentiousness and moral laxity in sexual relations?"

  21. Jamee, I said that in reference to the belief , from what I have understood from Islamic scholars and what I have read that when we commit a sin it is between us and Allah. That Islam does not ask us to come forward and ask for punishment for our sins. I am open to be educated on this matter.

  22. I guess we need to create a safe environment for our unwed mothers and give them emotional financial and spiritual support so they don't commit the crime of murder. perhaps a hotline for unwed mothers?

  23. @Shafeea: That teaching that sin is between you and Allah is the one held by most Muslims where Shariah Law is not implemented in full and the general understanding of Islam is very liberal, it is the view which, for example, Maumoon would have taught.

    However, the ijma (consensus) of the majority of the Zahirite Ulema (literalist learned ones) in countries such as Saudi, is that if you come forward and present certain sins (zina) and are punished publically for them, you will be spared punishment for them in the Akhira, in the afterlife. The Scholars apparently fortify men who come out and offer their daughters to be whipped or stoned as though they did a great thing in saving their daughters souls by presenting them to be punished for committing fornication or adultery (both called zina)

    Many Hadith and a few AYAT (lights or verses of Qur'an) state that you suffer for your sins before you enter Jannah, that no way to Jannah but through fitnah (trials and tribulations). So if you don't get caught on Earth, but genuinely repent, you will be punished in some other way.

    It is Sunnah that Prophet (SAW) did not allow his fever to be quenced believing it was earning him heavenly reward, for example.

    Many Ulema divide between social sin which must be dealt with publically, and private sin, between Allah and Al Nafs (the self.)

    If the sin was against another person, they can choose to forgive you and be expiated for their own sins for doing so without anyone else knowing, and then, Allah will forgive them for their forgiveness. Or they can take the matter to a Qadi and have it heard before wittnesses and judged.

    There are even some cases where it says it is not a crime for taking the law into your own hands for certain henious sins, though this is contradicted by other sources stating only a Mujahid can make a qualified decision in accordance with certain principles.

    On the other hand, there are Ayat which say that Allah is most forgiving and forgives all with more Mercy than a Mother has for a baby, which, if you ask me, is contradictory to some of the Hadith about how sin has to be burnt away so to speak.

    Basically, taking a literalist view point in interpreting, applying all of these contradictions can only cause confusion. It is apparent, in seeing all of this, and in taking into account the appeals for reason in The Qur'an and Sunnah, that the decision which is best for the whole community (Maslahah or utility) is to be followed but then, obviously, this is also subjective and there are different view points on what is best for a community.

    The conclusion, is that, islamic Law is more like an art, a subjective art rather than an objective science.

    If this response confused more than it did help you, then, you are starting to get the point, the real point I am trying to make...

  24. correction: The Ayat of Qur'an says Allah is MOST Forgiving, and Hadith state more forgiving than a Mother

  25. For those who claim that there is some Islamic LAW which is the correct way (all the fundamentalists) and all should be terrified into following it, there is no such thing! Even the so called science of tracing the Isnad back to closest narrator to Prophet (SAW), most trusted narrator, most quoted, quoted closest to the source (Madina for example) produces contradiction and discrepancy.

  26. Dear Ben.
    Are you suggesting that Islam be like Christianity? In Christianity this ambiguity is so much that nothing seems clear any more. ie.You condemn adultery and simultaneously approve it... as its humans that err. You forbid pork and allow it somewhere else saying the books differ... You call the messiah son of man, son of god etc... I know you are more qualified than me to elaborate on this ambiguity but in Quruan there are many verses which exhort the muslims to cast of doubt, to hold steadfast to the law, to love the prophet and God above all else. So where does this ambiguity fit in? Why does Islam has to be an art or a philosophy? Just because there are huge volumes of literature written about each and every hadhees, do we have to discard it when the ulema made so much of an effort to classify them, to show them which is right and which is wrong, which is permissible or which is commendable?

    To cut the crap short, Pls just tell me one reputable imam or a mujthadhid of islam who would have allowed a mother to kill her own baby after giving birth to it? Is there any ambiguity about cold blooded murder of ones own son or daughter and where the concept of right and wrong stand?

  27. Ben, what I said came from a highly educated Islamic scholar and member of the Adhalath Party not from Maumoon,

  28. Hakeem... Beautiful beautiful name by the way, it means wisdom, so lets use some wisdom, Please...

    In response to your first question. The Qur'an is said to be the direct Wahi (revelation) it is said to be Uncreated, as part of the Kalam (Speech) of Allah which is an eternal attribute, is it possible that THAT is referring to the external Qur'an as we have it? The orthodox opinion is yes, but, please consider something. Some Ayat contradict other Ayat, for example, one Ayat says fight, another says don't. Is it possible that something NEW which came came down to replace or abrogate (naskh) something which could have existed from eternity seems it only came into existance to replace something? Or is it more possible that it is contextual, subjective?

    Read the Hadith yourself, Hakeem, NOT the condensed three or four thousnad word, three or four volume summaries of Bukhari and Muslim, but the full, the real Bukhari and Muslim, pour through the real Hadith, all thousands and thousands of pages of Sahih (so called reliable Hadith) of Bukhari and Muslim, and come back and have this conversation.

    Hakeem... Yes, the Bible is also ambiguous, as is Islamic text, the well known argument that the Qur'an is straight and Bible is ambiguous is not that strong...

    But... If you really want to know the truth, it is simply that...

    Humanity is sacred, Being is sacred, burn for it, Brother, burn for justice, burn for justice, burn for the sanctity of life...

    This is the spirit of Mohammed and Jesus, friend, instead of trying to debate the detail, find the essence...

    Find the passion of Mohammed fighting to save children from being stoned to death, find his love, his Mercy for his people, for the oppressed, find Abu Bakr's Mercy for the slave, find it...

    In your own pain, dear Hakeem, in your OWN pain, THIS is Al Haq, the truth, the still, silent voice of mercy, which arises when you calm your mind down, and be with your own pain long enough to get past the anger it creates, and deep into what it is really is, it is, the spirit of Mercy for all...

    Seek it inside yourself...

    I feel you are a man of soul, hold onto your religion, but follow its essence, The RahmaniRaheem, the Mercy and Grace of Allah... Find the fire of truth and mercy within yourself, and follow THAT!


    Jazakallah Khairan my Ikhwan,

  29. Time to bring in paternity testing. Maldivian men appear so ready to spread their seed not so keen to take ownership of it and give their children their heritage.

  30. @Shafeea: Well, there are Hadith and Ayat stating as such, and I agree with your view point, and if Adhalaath teach that Allah is so merciful, then I can only say on that one I am very happy and agree.

  31. Sorry, I meant...Is it possible that something NEW (a new Ayat) which came came down to replace or abrogate (naskh) another verse, could have existed from eternity seems it only came into existance to replace something to set a new ruling based on new circumstances? This is the rational contradiction in the idea that the Qur'an as we have it is the non-Created Kalam, the Word of God. Or is it more possible that it is contextual, subjective?

    The other way to look at this is to take Kant's perspective that our phenomenological being only perceives something as being in space and time, but that space and time are only phenomena and not noumena, seems, how can we perceive of space or time, they are forever, can our reason comprehend something that is forever? How do we grasp space and time, unless, all space and time are merely one in the Mind of God, and, as entiities within themself, the fact that we experience these things, yet reason is clear that we cannot KNOW these things, means, all things in space and time, including Ayat, are a-priori, and all already existed from beginning to end as we experience it, in that way, The Qur'an may be eternal, uncreated...Yet, we can never experience noumena, all we experience is phenomena, so, we can't know whether this is correct or not. Not meaning to cause us to perish into the existential darkness of solipsism of course, but, we can't know it...

    Perhaps we only take all things by faith...

  32. We always talk about bringing changes, but we don't have that gut to break the spell!

  33. A feminist, who believes extramarital sex should not come under any scrutiny, cries for her 'right'. Unfortunately she lives in a Muslim country where Islamic laws are run (well,not wholly Islamic, though). And, since some mothers have killed their bastard children for the fear of being convicted of adultery, now has the chance of being convicted for murder. While the men they slept with run free. Now this is not right for the feminist. She thinks he should get some of it. But unfortunately , they had extramarital sex in a Muslim country. She out of all people should know what the consequences are. The best thing would have been for her is to not go near sex in the first place. But no, she had to have extramarital sex. In a Muslim country.


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